Curse

DivineEnvoy · Mar 23, 2008, 11:54 PM // 23:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

Ok... I believe that the majority of the people advocating loot scaling are either those who are already rich and want to keep themselves looking special compared to the average player, hence using Loot Scaling to keep the common player down; or people who use bots and so stand to benefit from Loot Scaling because Loot Scaling doesn't really inconvenience a bot but does greatly inconvenience a human farmer.

In all honesty, most of us don't really care whether loot-scaling exists or not, but it is certain that the price of items will remain cheap for a wide-range of items, and there will also be a steady of gold flowing in the market. The main problem with these anti-loot scaling arguments is that they are all based on mere greed. It's not that we care about being wealthy or what not, but we are certainly not convinced to these arguments. Like I said, if anyone on the anti-loot scaling side has an argument that's not based on mere greed, we'll consider it and may even switch sides to defend this view, but instead, you are claiming that the majority of the population on the other side of the line are just trying to maintain our wealthy status among the community. First of all, I don't even know how did you come up with that conclusion. Secondly, I don't even think being wealthy matters much at all, especially in this case, I don't believe people ever care about if another person is rich than they are. Lastly, even if this claim is true, it doesn't support your arguments, and it certainly is not relevant to my argument in the first place.

For the last time, can you point out an argument that's not based on mere greed?

Age · Mar 24, 2008, 01:00 AM // 01:00

I would say this about RTM is that those who don't have time due work,family and some social life outsdie of game would use them.Those who can power farm for hours won't use them and like power farming.

Those with real lives and have the CC and money to buy stuff would like to do this in an honest way.You never know they may help out others as well.

lunksunkunk · Mar 24, 2008, 01:46 AM // 01:46

Lets just face the fact that LS will stay as a integral part of the game, as much as getting skills nerfed every quarter of the year or even earlier.

As much as i would like to see the old economy brought back, since most of my items and wealth came from that "era", it wont bring back my the fun i had during that time since my guild has split, 90% of my friends list is nonexistant, and PvP was fun.

Anerf's Grind Wars lost its credibility long ago, when its Skill>Time hit the fan, and its economy shred to bits with constant exploits, tweaking, and abuse. Nightfall and GW:EN were prime examples. But like any company a business model only works if it makes money, and sadly, idealism has no place in the real world market.

IlikeGW · Mar 24, 2008, 01:55 AM // 01:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razz Thom

Just a side thought, I wonder how many of the people here who defend LS did the "Mastercard farm" and now want to keep themselves shiny above others.Definately mister casual player over a million gold guy.

Yeah, or they found a super rare mini or something. As the thread shows though 99.95% of the population isn't defensive about having wealth to themselves. People just want the game to be more accessible, less retarded, again.

Fay Vert · Mar 24, 2008, 01:59 AM // 01:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stolen Souls

We'd also have the inflation come back, which is what anet wanted to remove from the start. The inflation, which would make it harder for true casual players to buy certain things. Which is where people start to contradict themselves.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stolen Souls

And no it isn't a lie. Inflation occurs. It has in the past, which is why Anet stopped it.

GW has never had inflation. The only price problem there has ever been is when ANet introduce a new rare must have item for the first time in the game. If there was inflation in the game then how do you explain the fact that prices were lower just before the loot nerf than ever before? And with HM about to arrive, prices were only ever going to go down.

So where did you get the idea of this mythical inflation? GW maybe a fantasy game, but inflation certainly did not exist.

bhavv · Mar 24, 2008, 02:25 AM // 02:25

In case anyone hasnt noticed, this whole thread is based on maybe 100 people signing to remove LS arguing against the same 4 or 5 people that want it to remain so that they themselves can continue buying cheap golds without putting any effort into the game.

Need I say more? Oh yea, poll please.

Loviatar · Mar 24, 2008, 02:46 AM // 02:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

GW has never had inflation. The only price problem there has ever been is when ANet introduce a new rare must have item for the first time in the game. If there was inflation in the game then how do you explain the fact that prices were lower just before the loot nerf than ever before? And with HM about to arrive, prices were only ever going to go down.

So where did you get the idea of this mythical inflation? GW maybe a fantasy game, but inflation certainly did not exist.

i was here from the start and you very obviously werent.

prices dropped like a stone after actions taken by Anet to lower prices.

inflation examples?

100k superior absorb runes

75k superior vigor
any minor rune 3k to 15k

i paid 35k for a MAJOR vigor back then and MINOR vigors were more then sup vigor is now

GUARANTEED SALVAGE/RUNE TRADER did it

sigels for a hall???.........70k and up
Anet went 3X of the sigels and the price dropped

bhavv · Mar 24, 2008, 02:52 AM // 02:52

They just lowered the price that the rune trader would pay for certain runes and the drop rates of absorption runes were increased quite a lot.

Fay Vert · Mar 24, 2008, 03:44 AM // 03:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

i was here from the start and you very obviously werent.

prices dropped like a stone after actions taken by Anet to lower prices.

inflation examples?

100k superior absorb runes

75k superior vigor
any minor rune 3k to 15k

i paid 35k for a MAJOR vigor back then and MINOR vigors were more then sup vigor is now

GUARANTEED SALVAGE/RUNE TRADER did it

sigels for a hall???.........70k and up
Anet went 3X of the sigels and the price dropped

Yes, I remember thos prices too. But what has that got to do with INFLATION?

Now care to quote me the prices just before the loot nerf? Probably closer to this:

1K superior absorb runes (DOWN from 100K)
30k superior vigor (DOWN from 75K)
any minor rune 100g-1k (DOWN from 3k to 15k)

The key word here is DOWN! That is DEFLATION. Prices were high from the very start of GW and went down to their lowest just BEFORE the loot nerf. So what part of that lot was inflation? NONE OF IT!

Inflation was a lie, there was no inflation! Want to see inflation? Now quote the price of Minor runes compared to that just before the nerf, now quote me the cost of common materials compared to just before the loot nerf. THAT is inflation, ANet only caused inflation with the loot nerf, they removed supply of the most basic items from the game. Worst of all, they removed a lot of fun and a lot of inovation, a pretty high price to pay for a poor economical fiddle.

gg

Arv X · Mar 24, 2008, 03:58 AM // 03:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

Yes, I remember thos prices too. But what has that got to do with INFLATION?

Now care to quote me the prices just before the loot nerf? Probably closer to this:

1K superior absorb runes (DOWN from 100K)
30k superior vigor (DOWN from 75K)
any minor rune 100g-1k (DOWN from 3k to 15k)

The key word here is DOWN! That is DEFLATION. Prices were high from the very start of GW and went down to their lowest just BEFORE the loot nerf. So what part of that lot was inflation? NONE OF IT!

Inflation was a lie, there was no inflation! Want to see inflation? Now quote the price of Minor runes compared to that just before the nerf, now quote me the cost of common materials compared to just before the loot nerf. THAT is inflation, ANet only caused inflation with the loot nerf, they removed supply of the most basic items from the game. Worst of all, they removed a lot of fun and a lot of inovation, a pretty high price to pay for a poor economical fiddle.

gg

clearly you dont understnad what inflation and deflation actually are...

inflation: an artificially highprice due to an excess of [currency] supply

deflation: an artificially low price due to a minimal amount of [currency]

considering that a sup vigor is a mere 14k at the moment and a minor is 1.8k i would say that it is most definitely a large deflation from the time when lootscaling did not exist and many people had lots of money. Deflation is GOOD, we do not want to remove lootscaling and bring back 8k minor vigors and 30k sups, we do not want to bring back 12k Sup Death magic runes.

you complain because you think you are poor, in reality a gold coin is worth MUCH more than it was before lootscale and Anet has really helped the economy.

I'm not positive about this but i believe hard mode did not exist before lootscaling, now imagine hardmode with the crazy droprate of old. then the economy would REALLY be in trouble.

Awakener · Mar 24, 2008, 05:43 AM // 05:43

I asked Gaile a few questions regarding this matter on her recent visit.
Questions + Responses were:

Q1: Gaile will there be any Adjustments to LootScaling with the new RMT policies in place.

Gaile Answer: There are not any current plans she knows of.

Q2: So, is there any possibility of the removing of LS?

Gaile Answer: I will enquire about lootscaling.

NOTE: These answers are not in the exact form they were said, just stated briefly with the main point included.

manitoba1073 · Mar 24, 2008, 05:52 AM // 05:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arv X

clearly you dont understnad what inflation and deflation actually are...

inflation: an artificially highprice due to an excess of [currency] supply

deflation: an artificially low price due to a minimal amount of [currency]

considering that a sup vigor is a mere 14k at the moment and a minor is 1.8k i would say that it is most definitely a large deflation from the time when lootscaling did not exist and many people had lots of money. Deflation is GOOD, we do not want to remove lootscaling and bring back 8k minor vigors and 30k sups, we do not want to bring back 12k Sup Death magic runes.

you complain because you think you are poor, in reality a gold coin is worth MUCH more than it was before lootscale and Anet has really helped the economy.

I'm not positive about this but i believe hard mode did not exist before lootscaling, now imagine hardmode with the crazy droprate of old. then the economy would REALLY be in trouble.

Its worth the exact same as it was before LS. The value of gold never changed. But thats the misconception most people have when they have multiple types of ways to buy different stuff.

HM was introduced with LS. And you want to know what would happen if LS was removed with HM still in place. The prices of nearly everything would bottom out. Plain and simple as that and only a very very few items would go up in price.

Zahr Dalsk · Mar 24, 2008, 06:21 AM // 06:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arv X

you complain because you think you are poor, in reality a gold coin is worth MUCH more than it was before lootscale and Anet has really helped the economy.

So? Our armour still costs the same as it used to. So it's considerably harder to get. IMO that's not a good economy.

cebalrai · Mar 24, 2008, 11:44 AM // 11:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkangel921

/signed and agreed fully loot scaling is a waste now, let the players now have at least A LITTLE prosperity in the game.

Stop being a victim IMO and adapt?

cebalrai · Mar 24, 2008, 11:45 AM // 11:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkangel921

/signed and agreed fully loot scaling is a waste now, let the players now have at least A LITTLE prosperity in the game.

Stop being a victim IMO and adapt?

Witchblade · Mar 24, 2008, 12:12 PM // 12:12

I wish those whiners had the idea of how it was before Factions^^

No rune/material traders
No Insignas
Sup Vigor/Sup Abs/30HP Pommels were at 100K
Any nice 15^50 decent weapon such as Long Sword were 80-90K+ each
Weird, though, people were farming and there were no QQ threads, even when AF Code was implemented.

cebalrai · Mar 24, 2008, 12:21 PM // 12:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

So? Our armour still costs the same as it used to. So it's considerably harder to get. IMO that's not a good economy.

So you're saying that the high-end things are a challenge to get? And that's bad?

People... That's called good game design.

Solo farming (which is a loophole that was never intended by the designers) is BAD game design. Why can one character clear most of FoW? It's because of a LOOPHOLE. This area was designed to be a challenge for EIGHT characters, not a cakewalk for one...

Anet CLEARLY intended certain areas to be tackled by GROUPS of characters. Stop it with the "whaaaa we can't run the hardest area in the game with a single character anymore... I cant have fun now..." Do you all understand how babyish and spoiled you sound, insisting that Anet allow you to do this?

Awful, spoiled, crying children is what you sound like.

Anet's mistake was not closing the solo farming loophole sooner. They made the mistake of listening to all the crying babies on this forum b1tch up a storm every time they made incremental movements toward closer to closing the loophole. Anet should have moved swiftly and decisively as soon as they identified the problem, getting the structure of the game in line with their intent.

Mork from Ork · Mar 24, 2008, 12:52 PM // 12:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by cebalrai

?

Awful, spoiled, crying children is what you sound like.

no - that is the sound of customers. Babies just spit up when they cry

Customers stop buying products when they are upset and companies fold.

Abedeus · Mar 24, 2008, 12:58 PM // 12:58

Let's boycott a.net!

cebalrai · Mar 24, 2008, 01:08 PM // 13:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mork from Ork

no - that is the sound of customers. Babies just spit up when they cry

Customers stop buying products when they are upset and companies fold.

"Whaaaa! I'm not going to buy any of Anet's products unless I can run the elite areas in the game with just one character.... WHAAAAA"

You're the absolute essence of what I'm talking about. Threatening to stop buying Anet's products because you can't do a stupid thing that was never intended is BABYISH. Maybe 5 year-oldish... but that's a stretch.